Interesting things I learned about Rado

[Aaron@English]

Boost has to go somewhere sometimes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/Hurrikain/Radosblock.jpg

This was actual a thermal expansion issue between the sleeves in the block and the actual block material. Boost, compression, and fuel all take there toll when something goes wrong. It zippered on 3 sides, starting from an inch behind the timing cover. They had it R&R'd in about 4 hours and ripping the next morning.

I didnt get pix of it (I think Paul did), but the four link, T-case, clutch basket and driveshaft setup is pretty cool. Makes servicing any component a snap, and looking at the Motec catalog that they call the passenger floorboard was impressive as well. I am not sure how much I can share about the internal setup, but its running a 95mm BW that doesnt move at idle...like physically zero rotation.

[Mike]

Yeah i am sure at the boost levels hes running when shit hits the fan it aint just a headgasket.. LOL

Mike

[2K4EVOVIII]

WOW! I guess your not going fast if your not breaking something! I personally have to give Rado credit he went way out of the box years ago and stuck with it. Yea maybe competition has been all over him but that is one fast FWD car.

Great Pic BTW!

Chris

[DragTalon]

Holy shit. That's amazing. Anymore pictures of the setup?

[Aaron@English]

Let me look and see what I can drum up :)

[Aaron@English]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/ifarted2/IMG_1570.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/ifarted2/IMG_1571.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/ifarted2/IMG_1574.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/ifarted2/IMG_1575.jpg

I can say it runs Rau levels of boost depending on track conditions and compression that is typically reserved for small diesels.

[DragTalon]

Mother of god! I love the air shifter setup. Very nicely done up car! Wow.

[gixxer]

Very nice! Whats the best trap/et this car has achieved thus far?

[PussySweller]

I still laugh everytime I see the header (mainly the collector) on the car.

Shearer, you should whip him up something that has at least a hint of a proper merge collector in it.

[Aaron@English]

Somewhere I have pictures of the drivetrain/suspension but I am not sure where they are. Mysterio might have those ones.

[Da Fuhrer]

Christian's best ET and MPH to date are 7.34 @ 196.88MPH

Truth be told, and yes I'm aware that this has been said a million times, but there truly is more to be had in the car. The best part about this setup is the fact that it used to eat motors and turbos and now, with the help of some of the people he's got around him, it doesn't. The car is consistent and safe and cost effective.

If ever there was a person who should have given up, just from getting screwed it's Christian. But he's persevered and should be given way more credit than he is.

Say what you'd like, but I've met Christian in real life, and he's a stand up guy, I'm proud to call him a friend

and in regards to
but its running a 95mm BW that doesnt move at idle...like physically zero rotation.

It's a 95mm Bullseye unit, not a BW, and it does move at idle once the oil pressure comes down

[Mike]

Christian's best ET and MPH to date are 7.34 @ 196.88MPH

Truth be told, and yes I'm aware that this has been said a million times, but there truly is more to be had in the car. The best part about this setup is the fact that it used to eat motors and turbos and now, with the help of some of the people he's got around him, it doesn't. The car is consistent and safe and cost effective.

If ever there was a person who should have given up, just from getting screwed it's Christian. But he's persevered and should be given way more credit than he is.

Say what you'd like, but I've met Christian in real life, and he's a stand up guy, I'm proud to call him a friend

and in regards to

It's a 95mm Bullseye unit, not a BW, and it does move at idle once the oil pressure comes down


Bullseye.. I burned thru 3 of them in 3 days.. I like the row of them in Rau's Trailer.. Before they blow they work pretty good..

[Da Fuhrer]

Bullseye.. I burned thru 3 of them in 3 days.. I like the row of them in Rau's Trailer.. Before they blow they work pretty good..


Ummm, last I checked Brent Runs BW units, not Bullseye. I'm not going to comment on you going through 3 of them, because I don't feel like starting a fight on here, but I will say this. anyone that knows anything about turbochargers knows that if you have 3 failures in a row and no resolution you are doing something wrong. I'd be willing to bet I could tell you what you did, and how it caused the failure. This isn't meant as an insult, but I've used and sold more turbochargers than most people and I've yet to have a Bullseye unit failure, that wasn't my own damn fault

[Mike]

Ummm, last I checked Brent Runs BW units, not Bullseye. I'm not going to comment on you going through 3 of them, because I don't feel like starting a fight on here, but I will say this. anyone that knows anything about turbochargers knows that if you have 3 failures in a row and no resolution you are doing something wrong. I'd be willing to bet I could tell you what you did, and how it caused the failure. This isn't meant as an insult, but I've used and sold more turbochargers than most people and I've yet to have a Bullseye unit failure, that wasn't my own damn fault

Bullseye was just a statement never said thats what rau runs.. clearly airwerks is written all over the car.. I dont want to start a fight so ill state some facts.. Without throwing people under the bus, one of the well known members on here told me when i asked about brents car and his turbos..

" i dont car which unit you run, 70,72,80mm.. 50+psi on the 270thrust bearing and it is going to get taken out.. Unless your sponsored like Brent where you have a row of them in the trailer id stick to the garrett"

I raced all last year alongside of many BW sponsored pro teams and while at the top end of the track a cloud of white smoke would appear at EVERY event i attended from a certain car in my class.. My 1st instinct " they lost a motor ".. Funny when i went in the pits the engine on the stand didnt budge and the problem was fixed by swapping turbos.. I am pretty sure they knew what they were doing..

After blowing the 1st 2 turbos i was told must be an oiling issue.. I had it looked at by a BW dealer.. They said NO ISSUE with oiling bearing is cracked from Thrust its not blue it didnt get hot it cracked in pieces.. I was told by Bullseye must be an oil issue dont use the pickup from the head so i changed it to the back of the block.. I went out the next day with 74mm BW thinking let me try the next size up just incase.. 1 pass 9.65 and scrubbing the housing on 1 burnout and 1 pass..

I then contacted bullseye and explained.. they said must be a back pressure issue and to go to a larger rear turbine housing cause its over speeding the turbo maybe.. I spoke to Jose @ Forced Induction another Dealer who said that was the dumbest excuse he had ever heard and showed their lack of experience.. a larger turbine housing will still make the same final shaft speed it just takes longer to get to that speed..

Mitsu and high boost do not get along with these turbos from my experience.. They work great on most hondas running 45psi making 900hp etc.. Hell the turbo felt better than any garrett i ran in the past for the few passes i got out of it.. the compressor wheels are the shit no doubt.. Thats my .02..

Mike

[Kansai]

I think I'm learning that Mike@awdmotorsports is an idiot.

[Da Fuhrer]

I think we need to keep the name calling down to a minimum, I'm also wondering how in the hell half of what Mike@AWDMotorsports makes any sense. There's more contradictions in there than you can shake a stick at. And not only that, the fact that he's listening to a word that anyone at Forced Induction says tells me more info than 1 word that he typed

[danl]

Mike@AWDMotorsports,

Can you please elaborate as to why a mitsubishi is harder on the thrust bearing than say a honda?

[2K4EVOVIII]

Mike@AWDMotorsports,

Can you please elaborate as to why a mitsubishi is harder on the thrust bearing than say a honda?

:confused:

[Kiggly]

Can you please elaborate as to why a mitsubishi is harder on the thrust bearing than say a honda?

You need to maintain oil pressure for both engine bearings and turbo bearings to survive.

I've been running the same BW 74mm turbo for 3 seasons now, up to a little above 45psi. Keep the bearings wet and they live fine. I rebuilt it last winter, but the bearings showed no wear so the rebuild really wasn't necessary. I think the Honda oil systems have a better pickup in OEM trim than the Mitsu engines do. Before I started modifying the oil pickup, oil pressure in mine would fall to 30psi at launch. It would kill rod bearings like this. I now have that fixed, but the half-empty oil pan at the end of a pass is still a little bit of an issue. Cutting oil flow to the head helped a bunch, but I'm starting to run into issues again now that the car is at 9k through the traps and stays above 8k for about 8.0 seconds. I suspect a lot of oil is getting caught up into the balance shaft areas and the OEM oil return from the regulator is a total mess too.

If the turbo lives on a different car, it probably isn't really the turbo's fault.

Kevin

[danl]

Thanks Kevin.

I know this may be bit of a "hack" method. However would running an extra quart in the oil pan help out situations like you explained? Also about what 60' times do you see the stock oil pan configuration in a 6 bolt start to starve the engine of oil.

[Mike]

You guys can call me what you like.. They dont live long past 50psi and i dont care who tells me otherwise.. They were fine for almost 30pulls at 45-48psi.. Soon as it saw 53psi pull good bye.. There is a reason Rau has a stack of them in his trailer and there is a reason why 1 of his sponsors talked me out of buying the s400 i wanted to use to make 1000+ hp last year with..

Yep just an idiot who figured out how to run 8's in a street trim Evo in less than 5 passes in a car i built in less than 7 days.. oh yeah and with E-85 fuel which makes my car the Quickest E-85 Evo in the world.. oh and with a 62mm turbo which makes it the quickest 62mm turbo car EVER according to PTE.. So much for evo TECH.. if it isnt what the mods like to hear your thoughts and experience mean nothing.. Good luck around here.. lets see who is 1st to the 7's with an evo 8 this year.. I hope to god i dont beat out the shops with 10 years experience.. LOL

Mike

[Kiggly]

I saw no help from the extra quart in my car during launch. I hear it helps on the top end of the track if that is the problem being chased, but I haven't tried it yet. In a standard 6-bolt config, it just starts to uncover the pickup at about 1.7-1.8sec 60' times. By 1.5's it is pretty bad. By 1.3's it is very, very bad and I think aluminum rods may be the only way to keep it alive there.

We're way off topic. I kind-of wonder if that split block of Rado's was designed to have the outer walls carry a lot of the combustion loads. Any idea where it broke internally? It must have had internal breaks for the outside to be split that wide open. My guess would be the cylinder walls split off the main cap structure and then the outer block walls were the only thing left to take the load.

I've seen pictures of a 4g63 block that did this too. It was some guy in Australia. Mike Crawford had this happen with his mopar hot rod car too. It broke the bottom end entirely off the cylinders. The crankshaft exited the car, I believe the torque converter fell out too - it was a total mess. There are some really cool pics of it floating around somewhere.

Kevin

[Mike]

I saw no help from the extra quart in my car during launch. I hear it helps on the top end of the track if that is the problem being chased, but I haven't tried it yet. In a standard 6-bolt config, it just starts to uncover the pickup at about 1.7-1.8sec 60' times. By 1.5's it is pretty bad. By 1.3's it is very, very bad and I think aluminum rods may be the only way to keep it alive there.

We're way off topic. I kind-of wonder if that split block of Rado's was designed to have the outer walls carry a lot of the combustion loads. Any idea where it broke internally? It must have had internal breaks for the outside to be split that wide open. My guess would be the cylinder walls split off the main cap structure and then the outer block walls were the only thing left to take the load.

I've seen pictures of a 4g63 block that did this too. It was some guy in Australia. Mike Crawford had this happen with his mopar hot rod car too. It broke the bottom end entirely off the cylinders. The crankshaft exited the car, I believe the torque converter fell out too - it was a total mess. There are some really cool pics of it floating around somewhere.

Kevin

When the crank exits the car you really finished things off properly.. Thats got to be some nice carnage to see.. LOL

Mike

[Aaron@English]

We're way off topic. I kind-of wonder if that split block of Rado's was designed to have the outer walls carry a lot of the combustion loads. Any idea where it broke internally? It must have had internal breaks for the outside to be split that wide open. My guess would be the cylinder walls split off the main cap structure and then the outer block walls were the only thing left to take the load.

I've seen pictures of a 4g63 block that did this too. It was some guy in Australia. Mike Crawford had this happen with his mopar hot rod car too. It broke the bottom end entirely off the cylinders. The crankshaft exited the car, I believe the torque converter fell out too - it was a total mess. There are some really cool pics of it floating around somewhere.

Kevin

Since this was originally my rodeo, I will now resume control and answer an on topic question :D

The motor was/is a 15,1 with dissimilar block/sleeve materials. The liners were an unspecified forged liner in the stock cast block and the split happened at 70psi or so (all the track would hold). The expansion rate was enough different it just destroyed itself. The whole R&R was less than 4 hours and that includes me running to Safeway for Corona and Lime for the Crew on a somewhat lost bet..thanks Dave if you ever should read this.

The rest of your analysis is most likely though Kevin. I think the liners started to protrude and then jacked the block from the end of the threads up. I was told that the next most likely plan would be to run studs from top to bottom in one piece.

Da Furher- I see now what I did, I transposed facts from Brent to Chris. My photographic memory has 5% fail, so the 95 worked, the manufacturer did not.

Mike- You have mentioned the same facts on multiple boards, have the same quote attributed to apparently several different people and havent answered the gentleman at BW that handles returned turbos for failure inspection on EvoM why he hasnt seen your turbos. While I do not doubt in anyway that you had an issue with that turbo, the reason will not be known until BW or someone like Geoff@Fullrace are provided pix of the exact point of failure. I respectfully will ask once to please not clutter this thread with that talk until BW has seen the turbos in question.

I do not directly come from the world of High Pressure Ratios, but my father builds 14L Cummins that routinely run 70+psi. They have 2 "drag trucks" that have run 100+. They do not have turbo failures, other things seem to happen first. His personal truck runs 55+ all day everyday and has for 200k so far.

[Mike]

Since this was originally my rodeo, I will now resume control and answer an on topic question :D

The motor was/is a 15,1 with dissimilar block/sleeve materials. The liners were an unspecified forged liner in the stock cast block and the split happened at 70psi or so (all the track would hold). The expansion rate was enough different it just destroyed itself. The whole R&R was less than 4 hours and that includes me running to Safeway for Corona and Lime for the Crew on a somewhat lost bet..thanks Dave if you ever should read this.

The rest of your analysis is most likely though Kevin. I think the liners started to protrude and then jacked the block from the end of the threads up. I was told that the next most likely plan would be to run studs from top to bottom in one piece.

Da Furher- I see now what I did, I transposed facts from Brent to Chris. My photographic memory has 5% fail, so the 95 worked, the manufacturer did not.

Mike- You have mentioned the same facts on multiple boards, have the same quote attributed to apparently several different people and havent answered the gentleman at BW that handles returned turbos for failure inspection on EvoM why he hasnt seen your turbos. While I do not doubt in anyway that you had an issue with that turbo, the reason will not be known until BW or someone like Geoff@Fullrace are provided pix of the exact point of failure. I respectfully will ask once to please not clutter this thread with that talk until BW has seen the turbos in question.

I do not directly come from the world of High Pressure Ratios, but my father builds 14L Cummins that routinely run 70+psi. They have 2 "drag trucks" that have run 100+. They do not have turbo failures, other things seem to happen first. His personal truck runs 55+ all day everyday and has for 200k so far.

Put a throttle body in the diesel truck and let it open and close between shifts @ 70psi and tell me how long they last?? They dont surge.. I dont alot about diesel but my understanding is they dont operate anything like a gas motor..

The same reason I was told by a Corporate " race team " that the turbos are lasting longer on their clutchless shifted cars.. The same ones that dont run blow off valves etc.. I raced last season, i saw the BW powered cars lose turbos.. I heard it out of their mouths that if your not sponsored to stick to the garrett units.. I ran my 4202 to 60psi and it still is 100% perfect..

[Aaron@English]

I see where you are coming from, but a high boost diesel will still surge actually. The air doesnt have a BOV to route it away so it goes through the intercooler and back into the turbo.