Should drag racing rules be ammended since cars are safer?

[Whiskey Appleseed]

Recently, I had a discussion with some friends regarding whether or not modern drag racing rules should be altered or less restrictive since overall car safety has improved.

We weren't talking drastic changes, but do late model vehicles really need a cage at say 11.99 ets?

Discuss.

[Mysterio]

I would love to say that the rules should be revised but in the end i feel it would be to much of a hassle.

The only way i think it would be feesable is to do it my model year. But what about the newer cars that are not so safe? Can you make a blanket statement that all cars from say 2002 and up are safe? What about the cheaper base model cars with out all of the extra safety features?

[eclipzed]

Some drag strips have changed roll cage limit to 11.49 or faster because of the faster stock cars coming out.

[itzwolf]

Still 11.49 is easily achieved now days. Maybe 10.49 would be better but even at that, we are seeing pump gas Evo's getting in that range now.

Thats one thing that stops me from going to the one close track. I dont want to make my car a dedicated track only car and enjoy the street feeling and look of of it. One run I'll get the boot... not fun.

[Aaron@English]

I wouldnt think a 66 chevelle with 4 drum brakes and a C-clip rear end is safe at any speed on the drag strip. Then weigh that in comparison to my dad and I's with disc brakes, Corporate 10 bolt with C-clip eliminators, aftermarket suspension, etc. it becomes different.

I honestly think that an uncaged Evo at a buck thirty is still safer than a caged muscle car though. How do you enforce that though? Like Mysterio pointed out it would have to be a year break, model break, existing safety equipment maybe?

[Mysterio]

I wouldnt think a 66 chevelle with 4 drum brakes and a C-clip rear end is safe at any speed on the drag strip. Then weigh that in comparison to my dad and I's with disc brakes, Corporate 10 bolt with C-clip eliminators, aftermarket suspension, etc. it becomes different.

I honestly think that an uncaged Evo at a buck thirty is still safer than a caged muscle car though. How do you enforce that though? Like Mysterio pointed out it would have to be a year break, model break, existing safety equipment maybe?

At that point it is far to complicated. You will need the tech guy to carry around a computer to help check every car that needs to tech. A blanket rule for everything is simple and the way to go.

[Aaron@English]

I think you could break it down pretty easy

Airbags
ABS
4 wheel disc
2 wheel disc
POS GM/Ford C-clip or not
Harnesses

Then at 125 have the normal fire jacket rule.

[wheatley]

I agree with you Aaron. Especially since I don't want to cage my DD.

[Lowell]

The problem is that the 66 Chevelle in the other lane could hit your car.

[eclipzed]

The problem is that the 66 Chevelle in the other lane could hit your car.

EXTREMELY Good point!

[Mysterio]

The problem is that the 66 Chevelle in the other lane could hit your car.


and it reasons like this why they need to have a blanket rule.

You also have to consider drivers skill. There are situations that you can get in where people with a good amount of experience behind a wheel can get out of that a young kid who just leaned to drive will stack it in to the wall.

[danl]

I had the unfortunate event to see a caged drag car start barrel rolling at 130mph on the top end. This was a 9.99 certified cage. The car was taken away in two pieces. The one piece was the cage with driver area. The other was the engine compartment which broke away. The driver was dazed, but not hurt. Cages and roll bars are to protect from these style of accidents which are the most common killers at drag strips. I feel that the current rules should apply to newer cars as well.

I feel that abiding by safety equipment rules is showing respect to your fellow competitor. By making sure you are up to spec or having equipment that you may not legally need to have but do have will save you and your fellow competitor.

For me this is a way to have fun. The last thing I want to do is visit a friend in the hospital when his toes have been lost due to something like a flywheel exploding and we didn't put a scatter shield on the car. That is not a fun way to spend a weekend. If I or my friends end up in an unfortunate barrel roll accident at any speed, I want to know that we did the best we could to protect a friend or myself.

[Marco]

The only few rules I would like to see changed are pretty trivial. Everybody seems to be talking about the "cage rule". Here's what I think about the cage rule, back in the day when we started racing here there was a large contingent of cars that were going faster and faster, and we were all forced by the track and the sanctioning body to go and get cages, or we would be booted. No ifs and's or buts.
We are talking about 20 guys here that were all on the verge of breaking into the 11's (This is when 12's was FAST) we all ponied up our cash and went to see the local chassis guys, who built cages for our cars. They also had never done import cages before. So we talked about what we needed to make the cars safer. We came up with our own places to throw some extra bars. like sunroofs (cause some of us had them) cross bars underneath, because the car were unibody and flimsy, not body on frame construction like the 60's muscle cars. So we added maybe 10 or 15 extra lbs to the cars, and didn't care. The focus was on safety.
We all did it, so everybody else has to as well, when your car spins out cause you blow a tire or break an axle and you are in front of a guy who T-bones the shit outta your drivers door, you better hope there is a door bar there, and at the right height.
As for the extra safety I'd like to see, other cage designs adopted, with multiple hoops, and maybe get away from chrome moly to and go to newer steel alloys.
Also the alternator and battery kill rule is a bit stupid, running a giant cable through the car to kill the engine is silly. There should be 2 switches marked like road racing, and they should kill the ECU and pumps on an injected car.
fast cars in the 170+mph range should have auto chute deploy and auto engine kill on a transponder after the finish line. If the car crosses at over a speed if the chute has not already deployed it will be deployed for you. Seen too many retards forget to pull the chute in time, or seen cars hit the wall and cross with the driver passed out from the impact and still on the accelerator. You are actually supposed to pull the chute before the finish line, but in all the commotion sometimes people forget.
A move to different tire technology and sizing might benefit as well. Tire companies are rich, they have the money and the know how. Can they not come up with something that will allow a car to not want to fold over on its sidewall as hard and roll over, while still keeping traction?
Nhra needs to get their heads out of their asses and allow traction control, its getting way too dangerous without it. This relates to the tire idea as well. Most cars want to flip when the get out of the groove and then they try and compensate, also tire shake is usually so violent it usually blinds the driver, and then you have a driver trying to compensate and when he can see again realizes he is nowhere he wanted to be.

Also track need to be wider, and better serviced, most of these tracks we race on are from the 60's and have rarely been updated.

It goes like this: if you like to drag race, then you would probably like to be around to race see more. So go buy the proper safety equipment.

[Aaron@English]

The problem is that the 66 Chevelle in the other lane could hit your car.

Thats what I mean though. My 06 Evo is and always will be safer than my 66 Chevelle. The main thing is unless the Chevelle was completely rebuilt from scratch its still a 40+ year old frame.


I agree Marco, the little things are the main things sometimes. Traction control is really pretty lame to not have considering the level of acceleration most cars are capable of...and equally how fast they can get out of shape.

[Marco]

Anybody who thinks their car is safe outta think about the most popular drag race car of our time undoubtedly the 1992 civic bubble back. No matter what you think of it, you will surely one day line up with one,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y4yIjT83kA

More bars is better! Not to mention more bars makes the chassis work better which allows you to have better launches

[The Wookie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx2IxlsZVf8

[danl]

They sure don't make them like they used to and its a good thing they don't.

Marco I completely agree, but you word it much better than my neanderthal mind can.

[Bluevelocity]

I think a lot of the rules that are speced for drag racing only apply to drag strips in general. It's not the speeds (although they are really high) it's the walls and flat surfaces that seem to be the major factor. Consider this with the deflection angle that the car hits the wall at and it seems like the safest environment to crash in. For instance, solid imoveable objects like they do crash tests on would still be horrific for the modern day car. Look at say a 40mph impact test on any new car. Now think about the same test at 125mph, or an 11 second car. It would be a total loss for a new car to hit a flat wall at those speeds. Thoughts fellas?

[danl]

My feelings are that the deflection angles are shallow and really eliminate many chances of frontal or rear end impacts. However the side impact from another racer hitting you is always a threat and very hard to protect from. A normal 9.99 and slower cage isn't doing much for a side impact. However what I've seen a lot of is the shallow angle deflection impacts turning into a barrel roll at the 1000' mark or even the 1320. Cars flip a minimum of 6-8 times in these cases. I think that modern cars are stronger but I don't thing the A, B, and C pillars of say a modern evo are sufficient to protect a driver from suffering a serious neck or back injury possibly leading to death by crushing him. My feelings are that the 5 pt harness is needed in barrel roll style accidents to keep the driver from moving toward the roof of the car and keeping him/her cinched in as best as possible. Then the roll bar and/or cage is designed to help protect the roof of the car from crushing down onto the driver.

So you can justify modern cars all you want, but I really do think that the easy to achieve NHRA and IHRA ruleset does help in the style of accidents a drag car is likely to encounter. I think the rules should be viewed as the minimum you should strive for. Going above and beyond what the rules require you to do should be encouraged.

[The Wookie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WcqNiIfdEc

[Marco]

Yes and no on the shallow angle crashes. Yes the dragstrip is definitely safer than hitting a pole on the street for instance, and splitting your car in half, but don't think you cannot jet across a lane and destroy your car, and not have a serious impact into one of those walls. I speak from experience, I have done all of these things except put it on its lid.

Just have a look at any of those youtube drag race crash video's and see what can happen when you crash at even 100mph. I have broken front axles and been severely out of control, but was lucky enough to regain control. Some drivers may not be so lucky.
I have driven RWD's and FWD's and AWD's I feel by far the safest in my AWD car, it rarely gets out of shape, but anything can happen, cars and parts fail and break. I had a catastrophic engine failure some 6 years ago that had my car run a mid 9 while on fire. My harmonic balancer bolts came loose, and my crank broke in half, sawed a rod through the block, and destroyed everything else in its path while the oil ignited all over the car and underneath it from wind. I had no brakes from the destruction and had to jump out of the car when it finally slowed down to 30 mph. I used ALL of my prescribed safety equipment that day In this order, scattershield, Fire system, suit gloves, helmet, and kill switch (the electric pumps were still pumping after the car had coasted to a stop and the car was on fire, hence my switch to mechanical) . Would I have died? no, but I only got a sprained ankle from the 'Lee Majors Fall Guy' maneuver while jumping out of the car and getting run over by the tire.

I don't know how many rolled over cars you guys see, but I see plenty. The cars with a 6 point always keep the roof up, the ones without, the roof is always compromised, after all, cars are not designed to roll over. A roll bar, on the other hand is designed to roll over, its that simple.

I have done some of the stupidest shit on the street and written off more cars than I can remember, but I think my days of doing that on the street are over, I reluctantly got into safety equipment in my car, no doubt, I though I didn't need it, but the one day I did need it I was glad I had it. I have been way beyond lucky when I think back on it, But then again, I also think commercial airliners should have parachutes :p

[Bluevelocity]

I agree Marco. My comments were really meant to lean toward the fact that the safety gear they (nhra) makes people run is actually rather relaxed at the amateur level. I know this all started as a conversation to talk about whether or not newer cars are safer and should have less safety gear but I'm on the other side of the fence, i'm a poster child for safety gear. I feel you can never have enough. Even in my car, full multi-point road racing cage, full suit, gloves, balcava, sox, shoes, HANS, helmet, window net, is it enough? I sure as hell hope so should I ever need it. I look at the cage specs for the NHRA and i'm still just in disbelief they allow for swing out door bars on cars that run in excess of 130mph. I know what you're saying about the side impact, it's a very real posibility on a drag strip.

I share your feelings about commercial aircraft having lost a father to a commercial plane crash. Fookin' noobs did him in.

Erron S.

[awdboost]

What about safey on the street. A caged car can't be safe on the street with out a helmet. Not everyone is make a full out drag car. I Personal don't race cars that can pull the front tires off the ground (aka full drag car). I let them go first.

[Dennis F]

Rules are in place for a reason. If you do not want to cage your car, don't build a 10 second car.

If you build a 10 second car and want to race it, your going to need a cage, it is really that simple. Besides, there is no reason to have a 10 second car on the street going to work. Just because you *can* doesn't mean you should.

[Blaine]

Rules are in place for a reason. If you do not want to cage your car, don't build a 10 second car.

If you build a 10 second car and want to race it, your going to need a cage, it is really that simple. Besides, there is no reason to have a 10 second car on the street going to work. Just because you *can* doesn't mean you should.

What if you want to smoke fools for money on the street?

[Dennis F]

What if you want to smoke fools for money on the street?

Then wear a helmet in your caged car and call yourself,

http://www.kollectablekaos.com.au/images/WW-Great-Gazoo.jpg

[Blaine]

Then wear a helmet in your caged car and call yourself,

http://www.kollectablekaos.com.au/images/WW-Great-Gazoo.jpg
Even fools know that cage usually = 11.50 or faster. Have you never street raced for $$$?

[Dennis F]

Racing on the street for money was not my point.

My point was you can't do both and cry about rules for 11:50 or faster. Any car doing those times are trapping dam near 120mph and I don't care how new your car is, if you crash OR the person your racing does, your odds of survival are going to be better if your car is caged.

[Marco]

your odds of survival are going to be better if your car is caged.

You know playing devils advocate here, I have seen some poorly welded cages.... :p ;)

[Dennis F]

You know playing devils advocate here, I have seen some poorly welded cages.... :p ;)

I am not talking about some amateur cage:asshole2:

Let's be real, a proper cage is going to save your ass a lot more times then no cage in a 120mph car.

[danl]

Am I an idiot or is it pretty hard to screw up a MIG welded roll bar or cage on cold rolled steel? The 6 point I got from S&W welded together as good as it gets. Marco in what areas did you see "poorly" welded areas so that I can make sure I'm not doing something wrong.

[Marco]

Am I an idiot or is it pretty hard to screw up a MIG welded roll bar or cage on cold rolled steel? The 6 point I got from S&W welded together as good as it gets. Marco in what areas did you see "poorly" welded areas so that I can make sure I'm not doing something wrong.


Danl, I'm not talking about your cage. I have just seen many cages that when it gets difficult to weld all they way around, they just don't bother. It's usually out of sight, so nobody ever notices, but still not very good practice.

It usually around the roof, or by low bars. Just carefully plan which bars have to be welded first, and don't be afraid to drop it through the floor or take the roof off to get to the tops.

[The Wookie]

There's always PVC cages, Bellotech style. ;)

[danl]

Marco, I know you weren't talking about my cage (actually just a roll bar at this point). I was just talking in generalizations so I know what to watch out for. Thanks for the tips though.

[bstoner]

I have always tried to do my best to make my car as safe as I can and I have most of the safety equipment minus a catch pan and driveshaft loops which are on the list.

I do see why some people dont want to have to cage their car. I would not want to put a cage in my EVO ever, ruins the car really but I would like it to be faster. I do not see an answer to this problem that works out for everyone and is still safe.